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From Fax Encyclopedicus

Fax> But yeah, GI and Dip may become one, and Search->Awareness, DD -> Dungeoneering, OL -> Legerdemain ==A PLAN!== four tiers of skill training *Untrained: d20+mod+int *Apprentice: d20+hv+mod+int *Journeyman: d20+hv+mod+mod+int *Master: d20+hv+mod+mod+int plus special skill functions (like epic uses of skills?) Skill sets make you Apprentice. Overlap makes you Journemyan. You are trained in the skill sets provided by your class and in one bonus skill per point of INT modifier, and untrained in all other skills. ==NekoIncardine PROPOSAL== Fax has cited dissatisfaction with two different ideas: * Skill points being largely as-is, except for multitraining synergies replacing skill-to-skill ones. * Skill points ceasing to be, in favor of being "trained" in x skills, rank = Hero Value + 3. Neither quite works, but both work ''in some cases''. My proposal is that this, like how stats are rolled, is a GM option - they can pick either, or let their players pick either. All skill lines are formatted as follows: '''Skills:''' A Wizard is trained in the Mage skill set and chooses one other. If using Skill Points, a Wizard gains 2+INT skill points per level, and are trained in the Scribe skill set.''' Some people will prefer one road over the other, and simply using ranks preserves more compatibility with general 3.5, which seems to be at least somewhat desirable. From a play standpoint, the point-based method is better for being really good at a few thins, while the training method can be better for having a diverse skill set. Another alternative might be that classes get their skill arrays on the rankless scheme, and then get a FEW skill points to toss on top? Something like: * If the skill is trained once, you add your Hero Value, up to your Hero Value in ranks, and the modifier. * If the skill is trained ''more than'' once, you add your Hero Value, up to your Hero Value in ranks, and the modifier, +1 for each additional time trained. * If the skill is untrained, you add up to half your Hero Value in ranks, and the modifier. ==Fax Proposal== A trained/untrained system. You are trained in the skill sets provided by your class and in one bonus skill per point of INT modifier, and untrained in all other skills. When using an untrained skill, you roll 1d20+ability modifier+Int modifier. When using a trained skill, you roll 1d20+Hero Value+ability modifier+Int modifier. You can become trained in skills through multiclassing or the Skill Knowledge feat. ==Gral Proposal== A Trinary system. When you start out, you choose X trained skills. You can exchange a trained skill for two skills that are "half-trained" (needs a better name). * A trained Skill gives you 1d20 + Ability modifier + Int modifier + Hero Value + 3 * A "Half-trained" Skill gives you 1d20 + Ability modifier + Int modifier + Hero value * An Untrained Skill gives you 1d20 + Ability modifier + Int modifier This version is meant to address the problem some have, showing something you aren't necessarily Great at, but decent at. "Half-Trained" would count as trained for all skill purposes (Unless Fax finds something to legitimately limit that on). ==ShneekeyTheLost Proposal== Similar in concept to the first option, in that you have skill sets which the character gains access to through classes. However, these skill sets remain fixed as long as you stay in the class (unless you spend a feat to get more). Where it differs, however, is in implementation. Making a skill check is a level check. Thus a level 4 Rogue using the Disable Device skill he picked up from the skill set would roll 1d20+4. Multiclassing is handled as follows: If you choose a new class, you must choose skills to associate with that class, from the skill sets available to that new class. Thus, a Rogue4 wants to take a level in Sorcerer, he would have to choose new skill sets based on what a Sorcerer has access to. If he wishes to make a skill check based on his Rogue skills, he would check against Level 4, if he wished to check against one of his new Sorcerer skills, he would check against a Level 1. If the class you are taking also has access to skillsets you already possess, and you wish to choose those skills as associated with that class, then the classes stack for the level check. Thus if a Rogue4/Ranger3 took a skillset from BOTH classes which included Hide, he would be considered to be Level 7 for that skill check. If, however, he used Disable Device, which was taken as a Rogue but not as a Ranger, it would be as Level 4. '''Inspiration Points''' Inspiration Points are used to boost a given skill check for a single action in a given encounter. Inspiration Points will *ONLY* affect a single die roll, and will not affect further die rolls, even if an effect would indicate that it uses all modifiers of the previous die roll. Each class gains Inspiration Points, although at different rates. 'Skillmonkey' classes gain them the fastest, at a rate of 2/level. 'Hybrid Skillmonkey' classes gain them at 1/level. Classes which are not particularly skillful gain them at a rate of 1 at 1st level, and an additional point at every odd level. Each successive bonus costs an increasing amount of inspiration points. Say your first +1 is only 1 point. Then a +2 is 2 points, a +3 is 4 points, a +4 is 8 points, and a +5 is 16 points. And it caps there at +5. '''Talents''' Talents are special skill options which are available specifically to classes whose specialty are skills. They either provide an additional benefit to using a skill, allow the skill to be used easier, or in a slightly different manner. Talents are usable once per encounter, but you may spend (?)Inspiration Points to refresh one Talent as a standard action. These are similar in concept to Skill Tricks, although probably different in execution. Skillmonkey classes gain Talents at given levels (1st level for the first Talent, every three levels thereafter?). No other classes gain Talents. == Some Tens of Insane Skill Tricks, by skill == 1. Acrobatics (Balance) * Balance on hair-thin surfaces * Balance on objects that could NEVER support your weight * Balance on water * Balance on clouds * Balance on light Escape Artist: See Acrobatics * Get through spaces smaller than your head * Pass through magically-created walls (such as a ''wall of force'') without triggering any effects it may have * Escape concrete or similar "shoes" that shouldn't be possible to escape Tumble: See Acrobatics 2. Appraise * Know the precise contents of the object (X% gold X% impurities) * Detect magical aura in an object * Know what the aura is 3. Athletics Climb: See Athletics * Climb perfectly flat high-angle surfaces (keep in mind, climber's gear could potentially render the surface "non-flat" - this is for doing so without such advantages) * Climb perfectly flat vertical surfaces * Climb perfectly flat overhangs * Dash up a surface, regardless of its smoothness, up to movespeed distance * Move 5' up or down a surface without provoking an Attack of Opportunity Jump: See Athletics * Jump double the normal height * Jump double the normal length * Jump at double the normal speed, but the same length (meaning a jump can be part of a full run or charge) * Jump through poison gases (starting and ending on 'safe' tiles) completely unharmed Swim: See Athletics 4. Awareness Listen: See Awareness * Know where invisible creatures are by the sounds they make * Pinpoint the true location of an echoing noise * Detect audio illusions perfectly * Hear through solid walls without assisting devices * Spot: See Awareness 5. Bluff * Make subject believe a patent lie ("That wall is green!") * Make subject believe you ''even though'' they just passed a Sense Motive on the same lie not a minute ago * Instill nonmagical suggestion in the target * Display a false alignment for sensing effects * Disguise one's surface thoughts * Disguise one's INT score 6. Cartomancy * Stack the shuffle??? * Use non-tarot cards and get away with it??? 7. Concentration * Cast while grappled * Cast while (INSERT d20r SEXY CONTENT HERE) * Cast while gagged * Cast while bound * Cast in half the usual time (full round to Standard, Standard to Swift) * Cast as a free action * Cast while polymorphed into a body ill-suited to casting 8. Craft * Speed crafting * Craft magic items without being able to cast the spell in question, using only scrolls (higher DC if you can't read them) * Craft magic items without even the scroll, just a copy of the object * Craft magic items and you don't have the spell, a scroll, a copy, ''anything''. 9. Decipher Script * Decipher spells without casting ''read magic'' * Decipher languages you don't know but could learn * Decipher languages you ''can't'' know (Druidic, Runic) * Decipher random characters into something pertinent and usable * Decipher non-literate scrawls 10. Diplomacy * Diplomacy results can turn someone from helpful to fanatic followers of the user's cause * Diplomacy checks can make increasingly insane deals succeed 11. Disable Device * Disable a device in just one round * Disable a device Fonzie-style (free action) * Disable a device without even touching it (or using spells, etc.) * Rig a device to cease being disabled after a time (to cover tracks, or trip enemies coming behind you) * Rig a device to cease being disabled after a time ''and'' be nastier somehow * Replace a device with a different device (so someone coming in expecting the trap on one condition trips it on another) * Replace a device with a horrendously elaborate new device (replace a simple tripwire with a room-sized rube goldberg sequence of ten or more different trap effects). Open Lock: See Disable Device 12. Disguise * Disguise height * Disguise weight * Fool person who knows the person you're disguised as well * Fool person who knows you should know something you don't * Fool person into thinking you have skill ranks you lack * Fool person who knows the person you're disguised as ''intimately'' 13. Gather Information * Avoid Suspicion * Gather Information from things you shouldn't be able to gather information from (trees, nonsentient animals, etc.) * Gather Information from the walls * Gather Information in a quarter the usual time 14. Handle Animal * Rear/train Magical Beast * Rear/train Vermin * Rear/train Undead * Rear/train (you get the idea) * Rear/train in increasinggly short periods of time 15. Heal * Provide benefits of a full day's rest in one hour * Heal wounds that are explicitly marked against normal healing * Provide benefits of a full ''week'' of rest in one hour * Heal diseases and poisons without a chance for secondary damage to apply * Reverse permanent effects of diseases * Turn subject into Deadpool, turning their horrific disease into fast healing and a proclivity for breaking the fourth wall. 16. Intimidate * Intimidate fanatics * Intimidate someone into unconsciousness * Intimidate someone so hard, their brains freeze up as if you'd just cast ''hold person'' on them * Intimidate someone so hard, their brains freeze up and accept your orders as if you'd just cast ''dominate person'' on them. 17. Knowledge * Apply knowledge to things that have a clear connection to what you do know * Apply knowledge to things that lack a clear connection to what you do know * Make Bardic Knowledge-style checks * Make knowledge checks to know how to ''fake'' knowledge 18. Legerdemain Forgery: See Legerdemain * Forge documents without samples * Forge in spite of high-quality anti-forging methods (seals, etc.) * Forge with sub-ideal materials * Forge with audacity (i.e. all noncritical parts are COMICALLY wrong and the victim STILL falls for it, making them look like a complete ass later) Sleight Of Hand: See Legerdemain 19. Perform * Perfect performances can turn victims into fanatics, much like diplomacy * Turn subject's musical tastes to those of your band 20. Profession * General "crazy profession tricks" 21. Ride * Stand on a mount * Stand on two mounts at the same time * Control animal you are riding as a free action, rather than a move-equivalent * Hide behind animal for cover, without taking penalties for attacking from behind cover * Have the mount pull off epic feats of Acrobatics/Athletics that it normally could never do 22. Search * Sense magical effects in area being searched * Find invisible objects * Find objects that shouldn't even be there 23. Sense Motive * Discern alignment * Discern surface thoughts * Discern hidden emotions * Catch epic bluffs 24. Speak Language 25. Spellcraft 26. Stealth Hide: See Stealth * Hide others along with yourself * Hide in broad daylight with absolutely nothing to hide behind * Hide right behind the person searching for you and get away with it * (In combination with Acrobatics/Escape Artist) Hide by going right through something you shouldn't be able to go through Move Silently: See Stealth * Bypass pressure plates * Attack silently * Use other skills silently 27. Survival Use Rope: See Survival 28. Use Magic Device

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